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UK Music » Forums » The Studio » Recording Studio »

Fruity Loops 3.5 VSTi

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10-04-2002, 01:13 PM	#1
lady-j Fit Bird DJ Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 970	Fruity Loops 3.5 VSTi This just in - Fruity Loops 3.5 will be released as a VSTi. so all the people who have said it isn't 'professional quality' can eat their words. there must be a demand for it by the Pro Audio world if they are making it into a virtual instrument you can load into Cubase, Logic, Nuedo, Performer, etc.. lady-j

10-04-2002, 02:38 PM	#2
Sen Da Elda Moderata Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 4,513	Either that, or the people who make Fruity want it to become more professional. Also, it makes sense from Steinberg's perspective...if you can get a fruity user to go to VST because they'll have a tool they know how to use (Fruity) plus the power of CubaseVST/Nuendo, whatever You can get the source code/SDK for to make VSTi out of anything. Doesn't mean it's professional. That said, I do think Fruity has it's place and is a great starting place, as is Reason. And as a bridge to the higher tools, it's good to see it made into a VSTi

10-04-2002, 04:19 PM	#3
DJ Fat Zed Analogue Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 543	What's professional about cubase?

10-04-2002, 05:04 PM	#4
Sen Da Elda Moderata Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 4,513	the price? Anyway, it's the product, not the tool, that dictates quality - though sometimes it's easier to make a better product with a better tool. Or the more 'pro' tool will last longer, be relavent longer, etc. etc. Having a full pro studio doesn't mean that whatever I write will sound good or even sell any copies...but it does make the chances more likely!

10-04-2002, 09:06 PM

FrankieP

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2002

Posts: 130

“
Originally posted by DJ Fat Zed
What's professional about cubase?
”

hmmmmm....

Just curious Fat Zed... what would you consider "professional"???

11-04-2002, 07:09 AM

DJ Fat Zed

Analogue

Join Date: Feb 2002

Posts: 543

“
Originally posted by FrankieP

hmmmmm....

Just curious Fat Zed... what would you consider "professional"???
”

I don't consider cubase professional (for audio recording) because the design of the software is largely geared towards getting more mixing and plugins from your CPU. Hence the signal processing allocated for mixing and effects is considerably lower than other software. This results in too many audible digital artefacts introduced in the mixing process. VST plug ins actually sound better in other software!!!!

Logic is more professional, DP more so. The ultimate is things like protools and Radar. My protools setup uses two DSP chips entirely for mixing the signal. This is the equivalent DSP to a whole computer, so where VST to mix at the same quality there would be no room for anything else! Obviously this is the other end of the scale.

I think cubase is great for MIDI thouh, but I would definately recommend logic or DP over cubase for quality of mixing and plugins.

11-04-2002, 08:11 AM

FrankieP

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2002

Posts: 130

“
Originally posted by DJ Fat Zed

I don't consider cubase professional (for audio recording) because the design of the software is largely geared towards getting more mixing and plugins from your CPU. Hence the signal processing allocated for mixing and effects is considerably lower than other software. This results in too many audible digital artefacts introduced in the mixing process. VST plug ins actually sound better in other software!!!!

Logic is more professional, DP more so. The ultimate is things like protools and Radar. My protools setup uses two DSP chips entirely for mixing the signal. This is the equivalent DSP to a whole computer, so where VST to mix at the same quality there would be no room for anything else! Obviously this is the other end of the scale.

I think cubase is great for MIDI thouh, but I would definately recommend logic or DP over cubase for quality of mixing and plugins.
”

You got my head spinning on this one. To say that Cubase is not professional enuff for audio work bcoz it requires the computer's CPU/DSP or whatever to handle mixing and plug-ins is kinda... to put it gently, "crazy" (?)! Logic and DP does this too (correct me if i'm wrong). I mean these programs runs "native". Pro Tools is another story. I use Nuendo and it's native. So would you consider that not professional? How 'bout if I throw in a UAD-1 DSP card (which I have BTW and I love it!!!) and a TC Powercore to take the load off my CPU when using plug-ins. Will that make my system professional? I don't see your point. True, Pro Tools is professional, a lot of professionals use Pro Tools. But do you really think that recording with Pro Tools or Radar would have better results than say Cubase with a great soundcard with topnotch converters? Also, not all use cubase to mixdown internally. A lot of people mixdown externally and just use Cubase to run midi. Does that still not considered professional? I don't want to get into a flame war or anything, I welcome your opinion... to each his own. But I totally disagree with you. BTW, what does the word "professional" mean anyway?!!

Last edited by FrankieP : 11-04-2002 at 08:13 AM.

11-04-2002, 08:41 AM

DJ Fat Zed

Analogue

Join Date: Feb 2002

Posts: 543

I said that Cubase uses LESS DSP for mixing than DP or logic, that is why I said that!!!! Yes they are all native, but cubase uses LESS DSP than the others for mixing.

The DSP cards are great because they allow plug ins to operate in the sort of environment that they should do, without any DSP skimping.

“
A lot of people mixdown externally and just use Cubase to run midi. Does that still not considered professional?
”

If you read thoroughly I said:

“
I think cubase is great for MIDI thouh
”

.................................................. ......................

“
But do you really think that recording with Pro Tools or Radar would have better results than say Cubase with a great soundcard with topnotch converters?
”

YES!!!!! Because of my original point. Protools and Radar have a superior mixing engine and superior quality effects that use more DSP and dedicated DSP so no corners are cut. You should try comparing waves native VST plug ins with Waves TDM plugins of the same sort. You WLL notice the difference.

Last edited by DJ Fat Zed : 11-04-2002 at 08:43 AM.

11-04-2002, 09:21 AM

FrankieP

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2002

Posts: 130

“
Originally posted by DJ Fat Zed
I said that Cubase uses LESS DSP for mixing than DP or logic, that is why I said that!!!! Yes they are all native, but cubase uses LESS DSP than the others for mixing.
”

I used Logic before switching to Cubase and Nuendo, couldn't hear the difference audio wise. I really don't know how the software was designed. Maybe you're right, but if half of the music population uses Cubase, would it still be fair not to call it professional?

“
If you read thoroughly I said:
I think Cubase is great for midi though
”

I read your comments thoroughly and I agree that Cubase is great for midi, but my question was would you consider Cubase as a professional tool if you use it to mixdown externally? Or are you just talking about the audio side of it.

“
Protools and Radar have a superior mixing engine and superior quality effects that use more DSP and dedicated DSP so no corners are cut. You should try comparing waves native VST plug ins with Waves TDM plugins of the same sort. You WLL notice the difference.
”

I have the Waves stuff, unfortunately I can't afford Pro Tools or TDM to do a simple A/B. So maybe you're right about it sounding better when you have a dedicated DSP card to run your plugs. The plugs in my UAD-1 card sounds excellent. So I can relate to that.

I guess my question is what is considered "professional". Your points well taken mate and I welcome your opinion.

11-04-2002, 09:42 AM	#10
DJ Fat Zed Analogue Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 543	Professional is subjective. I think the main thing is that is varies greatly from style to style. In UK garage music, the recording quality is generally poor compared to other styles of music so the 'professional' level is quite easily acheivable using PC only setups. However, this is not to say that a lot can't be gained from better recording quality. A lot of mainstream garage tunes (so solid etc) can be heard with really cheesy General MIDI painos and generally low quality recording. However it is not such a problem because it is a musical genre driven by style and fashion rather than actual musical quality.

11-04-2002, 01:34 PM	#11
Sen Da Elda Moderata Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 4,513	hehe Zed getting all militant on the music as well Most dance music, to be honest, is driven more by style and fashion than music quality...anything popular tends to be that way. but, to make this relavent - Explain this UAD-1 DSP card...how much, where do I get one, and what does it do other than act as a sub processor. BTW, I still like Cubase...it's just friendlier...I've tried Performer and Logic (Not the latest incarnations) but just wasn't happy with the ergonomics and ease of use...

11-04-2002, 01:53 PM	#12
DJ Fat Zed Analogue Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 543	There always used to be great recording quality. Compare So Solid with Masters at Work.............. ............Lil' Louis Vega would have a heart attack if he heard some Garage

11-04-2002, 02:41 PM	#13
FrankieP Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 130	UAD-1 DSP Card... Dedicated power source to run Universal Audio's outstanding plug-ins, also called UAD-1 Powered Plug-ins. It is a PCI DSP card for the PC or Mac (mac drivers are still in beta though) for use with Nuendo, Cubase and Logic. The plugs... 1176LN - precise emulation of the classic UREI 1176LN compressor LA-2A - precise emulation of the Teletronix LA-2A compressor RealVerb Pro - probably the best software reverb ever CS-1 Channel Strip - Great sounding EQ, compressor, delay modulator and a reflection engine. Nigel - just released 2 days ago... great sounding amp/guitar processor. Pultec EQ - available soon here's the link to UA's PPI site... http://www.uaudio.com/PPI/home.html

11-04-2002, 03:31 PM	#14
Sen Da Elda Moderata Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 4,513	Hmm...was also looking at the Powercore as well... Stuff is well pricey...but probably worth it in the end I'll have to see what I can afford... --- And yes, the MAW thing is true...but like any genre, you have the excellent quality (MJ Cole, for example) vs. the not-so-excellent quality (pulseX and SoSolid). There are probably a greater number of crap House producers than there are Garage (in absolute values...the ratio is probably the same) It just happens that the no-so-excellent quality stuff seems to be very popular at the moment. I think the raw sounds just appeal to the people who are listening to that type of Garage at the moment.

11-04-2002, 03:44 PM	#15
FrankieP Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 130	Sen, UAD-1 sells around $600-700, Powercore around $1000-1200. UAD-1 rocks!!! Extreme quality for a cheaper price. The on;y difference between the 2 is that Powercore's open for third-party developers to migrate their plugs to its card. UA want's to keep making their own plugs for their own card. They don't want to reveal the secret DSP chip they're using for their card. I had read posts and articles that the UAD-1 is supposed to be far more powerful than TDM (uh oh... do I hear Fat Zed a comin' ).

11-04-2002, 04:05 PM	#16
DJ Fat Zed Analogue Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 543	It can do more plug ins, but not at the same quality. digidesign could easily downgrade their plug in scripting to accomodate VST quality processing, but then it would be "Amateur-Tools"

11-04-2002, 04:30 PM	#17
Sen Da Elda Moderata Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 4,513	rofl it'd still be more pro than what I'm using now when the UAD stuff is ready for mac, I will take another look see. The TC\|Works site states that they will be porting their TDM stuff to the Powercore for VST...thoughts on that FatZed?

11-04-2002, 07:23 PM	#18
DJ Fat Zed Analogue Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 543	TDM isn't just about DSP, it's a whole zero latency mixing and recording environment. The point of TDM is that your computer does nothing, so you're not using chips designed for word processing, web surfing and games to record music. The powercore is the best way to get the most out VST though. I might get one for my PC.

11-04-2002, 08:38 PM	#19
Sen Da Elda Moderata Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 4,513	that's a serious contender for "next purchase" for me. There's also a nice control surface that I've been looking at...and the xv5050...but my old xp50 still does that PCM stuff well...

13-04-2002, 02:49 PM	#20
Howling Rebel Alliance Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 437	i am a die hard fruitly loop fan and looking forward to this release.

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